What is the most appropriate network design for this topology?

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Hello, everybody!

I have a task to totally redesign a huge network which consists of about 150 switches (old enterprise CISCOs). Everything is located at factory's territory. Take a look at the attached picture, this is a classic "star" topology. It's current topology.

The core of the network will be located in two separated DPC, there will be about 300 meters between them (Now it's two 6509 bounded by VSS in a same location).

I will replace all cores, distribution and 90% of access switches.

The main goal is to optimize bandwidth and increase redundancy and fail-tolerance to maximum level.  

What is the most suitable topology for these goals?

Could Extreme offer something more than MLAG for core, stacks for distribution and LAGs everywhere?

I wonder how Extreme Fabric is suitable here, but there is no any success stories around...

 

Any ideas?

Many thanks in advance,

Ilya
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Ilya Semenov

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Posted 1 year ago

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Nick Yakimenko

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why should you change your current topology and devices? Why do you want to break what is working?
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Ilya Semenov

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Hi, Nick!

I don't want to break it. Customer wants. I just want to replace switches to modern devices. May be, create MLAG between the cores + VRRP.

Customer wants kind of full mesh topology, where all links work simultaneously and very redundant. Now I am reading "Protected VPLS and H-VPLS with ERPS/EAPS Redundancy Overwiew"
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Bin, Employee

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Hello llya, How about SPB(Shorttest Path Bridging)?
SPB is the frabic networks from avaya. But it became to Extreme. SPB has a number of advantages over networking solution, in particular:
  • Very flexible : SPB can build any network topology, such as Star, Rings and Mesh, without worrying about loops.
  • Very scalable: SPB can scale to support hundreds of networks nodes.
  • Very secure: SPB can build secure network zone.
Plus, SPB is very simple. 

Here is the short video about SPB.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7yn6YiwQ8Y 

Best regards,
Bin
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Ilya Semenov

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Bin, SPB doesn't work now. No one in Extreme Networks knows how it works. You've just bought it. And there are no customers who could buy Avaya.
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Bin, Employee

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Hi, llya,

Like Daniel Flouret, you could buy Avaya switches(Extreme) now. 

You could find ERS and VSP series switch from our web site.
http://www.extremenetworks.com/products/switching-routing/

Also agree with Grosjean, full mesh VPLS network will be expensive and is complex. SPBm is very simple and security. Plus, SPBm supports multiple ways for the link aggregation, such as SMLT (like MLAG).


Regards,
Bin
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Ilya Semenov

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Hi, everybody,

It seems like I've found a solution!

Full-mesh VPLS for Distribution and Core switches.

Unfortunately, I've never did it. Delving into EXOS_User_Guide now....

May be there are some success cases in GTACs articles?
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Grosjean, Stephane, Employee

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Building a full mesh VPLS network will be very expensive (you need MPLS everywhere, so x460G2 would be the minimal switch) and then the routing part of the customer vlans will be complicated to manage (your VPLS nodes cannot do that part - VPLS is L2 only), and you don't have active/active paths with MLAG.

If you would consider Extreme's Fabric Connect, based on SPBm and formerly from Avaya, you could build the Core of the network with that (VSP family of products), and attach to it your edge switches (via Fabric Attach). You should speak with your local SE about Fabric Attach and the plans for EXOS.

http://www.extremenetworks.com/extreme-fabric-connect/

The SPBm network would be like your VPLS idea, but better: L2 virtualization, L3 virtualization, IP Multicast virtualization, etc.  There are thousands of such fabric in production. It's like an MPLS multiservices solution, but running on a single protocol, and multicast friendly.
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Ilya Semenov

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Hi, Stephane,

Budget is not a problem, feasibility is a problem. 

Why "routing part of customer vlans will be complicated to manage"? Could you explain it?

I've configured MPLS only during CCIE preparation (VRF+BGP+MPLS)

Thank you!
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Grosjean, Stephane, Employee

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Hi,

Well, first of all, in case of dual-homing, you wouldn't be active/active, and you would need on top of MLAG to run ESRP. Also, no igmp snooping on the vlans going to VPLS, nor ipforwarding. So you'd need to dedicate some switches to perform routing, outside of the VPLS network. Is there a requirement for Multicast?

When would happen that project? If you don't want (for some reason) to use a proven Fabric technology such as Fabric Connect, there're other modern ways. But timing is important and you'd need to discuss that with your local Extreme team, that cannot happen at the moment on a public forum.
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Ilya Semenov

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Thanks, Stephane!

I'll ask the local team for helping me in preparing a correct specification.
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Daniel Flouret, Employee

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Ilya,

All SE's in Extreme  have received training and should be able to explain how SPB works, at least in a high-level way. If you need deep, detailed technical information, you should look for a former Avaya (now Extreme) SE. They have been selling and installing it for quite some time.

Regarding buying it, you should look for a former Avaya (now Extreme) Partner, as existing Extreme Partners still don't have the knowledge to sell this.

Remember that we closed the purchase of the Avaya Networking Business just one month ago. We can do miracles, but sometimes it takes a bit over 30 days... ;=)
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Roger Lapuh, Employee

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Over 1400 SPB networks are running flawlessly and customers are very happy about their solution. I am sure many of those customers would be happy to be a reference for your customer. The Extreme SPB fabric solutions scales easily to 500 fabric switches, so your topology can be addressed without any scaling concerns.
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Ilya Semenov

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Guys, I LOVE exteme's switches and wifi cause I have a great experience with these devices. I am not sure about Avaya.

At the moment summit switches are not ready to be edge for avaya fabric. Local team said: "an interaction between  avaya fb + summit will be available in coming EXOS release" - i don't believe them. It will take at least a year.
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Daniel Flouret, Employee

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Illya, as an SE I'm not in a position to promise you anything related to the development of EXOS, but I hope we can surprise you by delivering on our promise of having Fabric Attach in the next release of EXOS.
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Roger Lapuh, Employee

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Illya, let me add to this: Fabric Attach is a capability that is using LLDP TLV extensions.  XOS already supports LLDP, thus the work is not that huge. I trust the team that they can deliver to what they signed up for.
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Bin, Employee

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Hi llya, Agree with Daniel and Roger and we will support Fabric attach in EXOS. 
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Andre Brits Kannemeyer

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Adding  my thought to the discussion.

My background is around the Extreme S series and summit range.
For the normal enterprise network the edge vlan would get routed to the DC, why even look at a L2 service like Fabric or VPLS, Surely you can look at "Virtual Switch bonding" in the distribution and core with normal Lags between the Edge and VSB and then Advance edge on the edge summit switches.
This will give you HA and all likes being used.

I only see use for Fabric when you need to extend L2 services across a network.
I agree that this can replace a MPLS network. 

The use cases is for extending L2 IoT services ect.

Your comments would be appreciated  
(Edited)
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Bin, Employee

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In SPB, Avaya (Now Extreme) added 3 defined TVLS allowing us to support virtual layer 3 networks and IP multicast streams.

Again, you could virtual layer 3 networks as very simple configuration and only need to configure one edge nodes (no need to touch core nodes).  

Furthermore, SPB has one nice feature called Fabric Extend. By using Fabric Extend, we can stretch over IP routed campus networks or even provider networks such as MPLS VPN. 

There is one URL to introduce Fabric Extend. 
https://www.avaya.com/en/documents/avaya-fabric-extend-dn7706.pdf?t=0


Best regards,
Bin
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Arie Stroobant

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SPB "Great Succes" 
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Bin, Employee

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Hello Arie 

Thanks for your comment. :)