Site Survey Question

  • 12 November 2013
  • 47 replies
  • 1150 views


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47 replies

Userlevel 7
Due to compliance reasons any model that has been certified for "thin" mode (where it talks to a controller) cannot be moved to standalone mode. The FCC certifications are done on the exact model number so any changes to the model type is not supported unless the unit is stamped standalone to begin with (example: sticker will say 3630/3640).

Doug Hyde
Sr Support Engineer
Extreme Networks
Please don't violate your local regulations, but for a quick test you can run the following via ssh or the console, on at least a 3705 and probably the other the 37xx devices:

cset thirdPartyApMode standalone
capply
csave
// wait for "save config from cli shell" message
reboot

The above is clearly not officially supported.
Userlevel 1
Just a follow up on this thread. I did test on a 3710i running V8.21 code and found that Hartmut's instructions did work. The key is to enable "restart service in absence of controller". However, if you need to change the channel or more likely the power in the field you will need to SSH or console into the AP. There are two commands needed to change channel and power - cset frequency - cset power radio 0 is the 5GHz and radio 1 is the 2.4 GHz Here are some examples: cset frequency 0 5805 cset frequency 1 2412 cset power 0 12 cset power 1 23 Unfortunately, you will need to know channel frequency. Here are the equations to calculate them: 5000 + (5 * channel) so the above example would be 5000 + (161 x 5) = 5805 2407 + (5 * channel) so the above example would be 2407 + (1 x 5 ) = 2412 Pardon my first answer I've been working with this product since version 3.0 and old habits die hard. I think the thin AP solution to the survey mode is much better. By the way thirdPartyApMode command does work though I suspect this is a good idea.
Userlevel 2
I also test the thirdPartyApMode. The AP also had his IP Settings after Reboot, but all Radio and WLAN Settings are missed. I also use the apply command, but nothing helps. Does somebody have an idea?
I haven't tried this yet. But I wonder if you B@AP instead of B@HWC for the VNS topology of the AP and then SSH into the AP with the commands provided Jon or Patrick, apply, reboot AP, and then unplug the AP from the network and just plug it into a PoE injector and see what happens...

I'll try doing this later today and let you know what I find.
Userlevel 7
I haven't tried this yet. But I wonder if you B@AP instead of B@HWC for the VNS topology of the AP and then SSH into the AP with the commands provided Jon or Patrick, apply, reboot AP, and then unplug the AP from the network and just plug it into a PoE injector and see what happens...

I'll try doing this later today and let you know what I find.
It should work, it's the way we do our survey with all different APs like 3865, 3795, 3805...

Here the short version :-)
https://community.extremenetworks.com/extreme/topics/extreme-ap-configuration
I haven't tried this yet. But I wonder if you B@AP instead of B@HWC for the VNS topology of the AP and then SSH into the AP with the commands provided Jon or Patrick, apply, reboot AP, and then unplug the AP from the network and just plug it into a PoE injector and see what happens...

I'll try doing this later today and let you know what I find.
Bazinga! I'll give it a try.
Userlevel 7
Official Response for tracking:

Objective
  • Site Survey Mode
  • Wireless RF Survey

Environment
IdentiFi Wireless Access Points - All Models
Firmware All

Procedure
  1. Attach the access point that will be used for survey mode.
  2. Configure the access point with a demo VNS, WLAN-Service, Default Role Allow All.
  3. Assign the Role to a Bridge at AP Topology untagged.
  4. Set both radios to a desired channel and max power.
  5. In the AP properties enable (with check mark) Maintain client sessions in the event of a poll failure and restart service in the absence of a controller.
  6. Confirm the access point has the configuration and the SSID's are advertising out in the air.
  7. Power down the access point and bring it to the desired location for the survey, power the unit up (single PoE injector).
The access point will advertise out the last known good configuration it had before the power down. This should allow someone to use the access point to take survey readings. If any changes are needed, the access point should be booted back up where it can access the controller again to pull down any new changes.
Userlevel 4
Official Response for tracking:

Objective
  • Site Survey Mode
  • Wireless RF Survey

Environment
IdentiFi Wireless Access Points - All Models
Firmware All

Procedure
  1. Attach the access point that will be used for survey mode.
  2. Configure the access point with a demo VNS, WLAN-Service, Default Role Allow All.
  3. Assign the Role to a Bridge at AP Topology untagged.
  4. Set both radios to a desired channel and max power.
  5. In the AP properties enable (with check mark) Maintain client sessions in the event of a poll failure and restart service in the absence of a controller.
  6. Confirm the access point has the configuration and the SSID's are advertising out in the air.
  7. Power down the access point and bring it to the desired location for the survey, power the unit up (single PoE injector).
The access point will advertise out the last known good configuration it had before the power down. This should allow someone to use the access point to take survey readings. If any changes are needed, the access point should be booted back up where it can access the controller again to pull down any new changes.

Hello Doug,

I will prepare my new AP3825i for site survey. I can't remember if the TX power settings shown in the configuration include the antenna gain. In case of selecting max power setting 15dBm (Germany) for the 2,4 GHz radio do i have to add 3 dBm antenna gain (=18 dBm) or is 15 dBm the overall transmit power?

I would like configure my access point to 50mW (17 dBm) at the 5 GHz radio and 25mW (14dBm) at 2,4 GHz radio.

Best Regards
Hartmut
Userlevel 2
Official Response for tracking:

Objective
  • Site Survey Mode
  • Wireless RF Survey

Environment
IdentiFi Wireless Access Points - All Models
Firmware All

Procedure
  1. Attach the access point that will be used for survey mode.
  2. Configure the access point with a demo VNS, WLAN-Service, Default Role Allow All.
  3. Assign the Role to a Bridge at AP Topology untagged.
  4. Set both radios to a desired channel and max power.
  5. In the AP properties enable (with check mark) Maintain client sessions in the event of a poll failure and restart service in the absence of a controller.
  6. Confirm the access point has the configuration and the SSID's are advertising out in the air.
  7. Power down the access point and bring it to the desired location for the survey, power the unit up (single PoE injector).
The access point will advertise out the last known good configuration it had before the power down. This should allow someone to use the access point to take survey readings. If any changes are needed, the access point should be booted back up where it can access the controller again to pull down any new changes.

Hi Hartmut, have you received an answer to this question?

Regards
Tony
Userlevel 4
Official Response for tracking:

Objective
  • Site Survey Mode
  • Wireless RF Survey

Environment
IdentiFi Wireless Access Points - All Models
Firmware All

Procedure
  1. Attach the access point that will be used for survey mode.
  2. Configure the access point with a demo VNS, WLAN-Service, Default Role Allow All.
  3. Assign the Role to a Bridge at AP Topology untagged.
  4. Set both radios to a desired channel and max power.
  5. In the AP properties enable (with check mark) Maintain client sessions in the event of a poll failure and restart service in the absence of a controller.
  6. Confirm the access point has the configuration and the SSID's are advertising out in the air.
  7. Power down the access point and bring it to the desired location for the survey, power the unit up (single PoE injector).
The access point will advertise out the last known good configuration it had before the power down. This should allow someone to use the access point to take survey readings. If any changes are needed, the access point should be booted back up where it can access the controller again to pull down any new changes.

Not yet. I will send Doug a tweet, so he could notice my question.
Userlevel 7
Official Response for tracking:

Objective
  • Site Survey Mode
  • Wireless RF Survey

Environment
IdentiFi Wireless Access Points - All Models
Firmware All

Procedure
  1. Attach the access point that will be used for survey mode.
  2. Configure the access point with a demo VNS, WLAN-Service, Default Role Allow All.
  3. Assign the Role to a Bridge at AP Topology untagged.
  4. Set both radios to a desired channel and max power.
  5. In the AP properties enable (with check mark) Maintain client sessions in the event of a poll failure and restart service in the absence of a controller.
  6. Confirm the access point has the configuration and the SSID's are advertising out in the air.
  7. Power down the access point and bring it to the desired location for the survey, power the unit up (single PoE injector).
The access point will advertise out the last known good configuration it had before the power down. This should allow someone to use the access point to take survey readings. If any changes are needed, the access point should be booted back up where it can access the controller again to pull down any new changes.

tx power + antenna gain = EIRP
So tx power do not include the antenna gain.
Userlevel 4
Official Response for tracking:

Objective
  • Site Survey Mode
  • Wireless RF Survey

Environment
IdentiFi Wireless Access Points - All Models
Firmware All

Procedure
  1. Attach the access point that will be used for survey mode.
  2. Configure the access point with a demo VNS, WLAN-Service, Default Role Allow All.
  3. Assign the Role to a Bridge at AP Topology untagged.
  4. Set both radios to a desired channel and max power.
  5. In the AP properties enable (with check mark) Maintain client sessions in the event of a poll failure and restart service in the absence of a controller.
  6. Confirm the access point has the configuration and the SSID's are advertising out in the air.
  7. Power down the access point and bring it to the desired location for the survey, power the unit up (single PoE injector).
The access point will advertise out the last known good configuration it had before the power down. This should allow someone to use the access point to take survey readings. If any changes are needed, the access point should be booted back up where it can access the controller again to pull down any new changes.

Thanks Ronald for your useful reply.
Userlevel 7
Official Response for tracking:

Objective
  • Site Survey Mode
  • Wireless RF Survey

Environment
IdentiFi Wireless Access Points - All Models
Firmware All

Procedure
  1. Attach the access point that will be used for survey mode.
  2. Configure the access point with a demo VNS, WLAN-Service, Default Role Allow All.
  3. Assign the Role to a Bridge at AP Topology untagged.
  4. Set both radios to a desired channel and max power.
  5. In the AP properties enable (with check mark) Maintain client sessions in the event of a poll failure and restart service in the absence of a controller.
  6. Confirm the access point has the configuration and the SSID's are advertising out in the air.
  7. Power down the access point and bring it to the desired location for the survey, power the unit up (single PoE injector).
The access point will advertise out the last known good configuration it had before the power down. This should allow someone to use the access point to take survey readings. If any changes are needed, the access point should be booted back up where it can access the controller again to pull down any new changes.

always a pleasure - I still hope to get a free tshirt for 5000 points *LOL*
Userlevel 4
Official Response for tracking:

Objective
  • Site Survey Mode
  • Wireless RF Survey

Environment
IdentiFi Wireless Access Points - All Models
Firmware All

Procedure
  1. Attach the access point that will be used for survey mode.
  2. Configure the access point with a demo VNS, WLAN-Service, Default Role Allow All.
  3. Assign the Role to a Bridge at AP Topology untagged.
  4. Set both radios to a desired channel and max power.
  5. In the AP properties enable (with check mark) Maintain client sessions in the event of a poll failure and restart service in the absence of a controller.
  6. Confirm the access point has the configuration and the SSID's are advertising out in the air.
  7. Power down the access point and bring it to the desired location for the survey, power the unit up (single PoE injector).
The access point will advertise out the last known good configuration it had before the power down. This should allow someone to use the access point to take survey readings. If any changes are needed, the access point should be booted back up where it can access the controller again to pull down any new changes.

Remember: it would be a purple coloured t-shirt. Better you should get the original wifi detector t-shirt i wear sometimes for fun during site survey. They could custumize the backsize with "Extreme Community Champion" 😉
Userlevel 7
Official Response for tracking:

Objective
  • Site Survey Mode
  • Wireless RF Survey

Environment
IdentiFi Wireless Access Points - All Models
Firmware All

Procedure
  1. Attach the access point that will be used for survey mode.
  2. Configure the access point with a demo VNS, WLAN-Service, Default Role Allow All.
  3. Assign the Role to a Bridge at AP Topology untagged.
  4. Set both radios to a desired channel and max power.
  5. In the AP properties enable (with check mark) Maintain client sessions in the event of a poll failure and restart service in the absence of a controller.
  6. Confirm the access point has the configuration and the SSID's are advertising out in the air.
  7. Power down the access point and bring it to the desired location for the survey, power the unit up (single PoE injector).
The access point will advertise out the last known good configuration it had before the power down. This should allow someone to use the access point to take survey readings. If any changes are needed, the access point should be booted back up where it can access the controller again to pull down any new changes.

Looks like Ron beat me to it. Thanks Ron 🙂
Userlevel 7
Official Response for tracking:

Objective
  • Site Survey Mode
  • Wireless RF Survey

Environment
IdentiFi Wireless Access Points - All Models
Firmware All

Procedure
  1. Attach the access point that will be used for survey mode.
  2. Configure the access point with a demo VNS, WLAN-Service, Default Role Allow All.
  3. Assign the Role to a Bridge at AP Topology untagged.
  4. Set both radios to a desired channel and max power.
  5. In the AP properties enable (with check mark) Maintain client sessions in the event of a poll failure and restart service in the absence of a controller.
  6. Confirm the access point has the configuration and the SSID's are advertising out in the air.
  7. Power down the access point and bring it to the desired location for the survey, power the unit up (single PoE injector).
The access point will advertise out the last known good configuration it had before the power down. This should allow someone to use the access point to take survey readings. If any changes are needed, the access point should be booted back up where it can access the controller again to pull down any new changes.

Ron, when you get to 5000 points, I'll do what I can to get you a tshirt.

-Drew

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