topic Re: SPBM implemented in EXOS in ExtremeSwitching (VSP/Fabric Engine)

SPBM implemented in EXOS

haveagreatday — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 09:41:30 GMT

Hi All,

I was wondering if there are plans for implementing VOSS SPMB capabilities in EXOS, so the EXOS switches can work as BCBs/BEBs.

VOSS has quite complicated command line interface compared to EXOS and I thing it would be even simpler to configure SPBM in EXOS like CLI. One of the strong sides of EXOS is its configuration simplicity and command line's functionalities; I've had an experience of technicians that typically use GUI tool to manage their infrastructure and said that EXOS CLI is so nice and intuitive that they'll use it for simple configuration and monitoring.

We already have universal hardware that can work under EXOS and VOSS so integrading VOSS functionalities in EXOS seems like a natural step.

I wonder if there were any discutions about this between Extreme developers or if it's on any internal roadmaps.

Best regards and have a great day 🙂

Re: SPBM implemented in EXOS

Jave — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 14:04:15 GMT

Hi @haveagreatday ,

I'm only a end user, but I would be very suprised if a such functionnality were implemented by Extreme into EXOS. And I'm not agree with you, VOSS/FE CLI commands are very easy, especially to configure Fabric, it's all about the familiarity, as with every NOS.

Re: SPBM implemented in EXOS

EXTR_Paul — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 14:43:44 GMT

CLI and GUI usability all comes down to personal preference.

I have customers that love ERS/VSP CLI and don't like EXOS. And I have customers that think EXOS CLI is far superior. At the end of the day it comes down to familiarity. Today we have to switch o/s's. You get the pick what makes the most sense. Since Extreme purchased Avaya I am seeing most clients going EXOS edge and VSP Agg/Core/DC. With FA on EXOS it really don't matter.

And the CLI is just a CLI. I am seeing fewer clients worrying about the CLI because they are automating everything with ZTP, ZTF and NAC.

Re: SPBM implemented in EXOS

Nicolas_Melay — Fri, 08 Dec 2023 19:05:11 GMT

I totally agree with VOSS CLI being difficult to work with.
I don't think bringing SPBM to EXOS really makes sense though.
IMHO, the best thing to do would be make VOSS more admin-friendly (auto-detect terminal size, make all commands output fit in 80 or max 120 columns, kill the crazy "no lacp" global command, make the "vlan member" command work with multiple VLANs, and so many more).

If you want to build something similar to SPBM on EXOS, you might want to take a look at AutoBGP.
I'm not sure where it fits in Extreme's current strategy, but a few years ago it seemed like an interesting vendor agnostic alternative.

Re: SPBM implemented in EXOS

WillyHe — Sat, 09 Dec 2023 16:23:56 GMT

I totally agree with EXTR_Paul and Jave, when you are familiar with a cli then that is the best, easiest, ... for you.

I'm familiar with ERS/VOSS since Synoptics time, if you remember Synoptics/Bay/Nortel/Avaya/Extreme.

One thing I can tell is, there is no graphical interface like the ERS/VOSS interface.
In the beginning this was THE interface, later a useful cli interface was developed, now some things are easier with cli, others with the graphical interface.

regards
WillyHe

Re: SPBM implemented in EXOS

Chi — Tue, 09 Jan 2024 16:47:22 GMT

If you're running Fabric Engine, you still have EDM, which is similar to the JDM GUI interface from the Bay/Nortel/early Avaya days.

Re: SPBM implemented in EXOS

Chi — Tue, 09 Jan 2024 16:49:13 GMT

VOSS CLI is friendly to people who aren't lazy and want to use wizards. There is no need to have LACP enabled by default, how is that crazy?

I said what I said. LOL

Re: SPBM implemented in EXOS

Chi — Tue, 09 Jan 2024 16:51:25 GMT

The only reason a bulk of ex-Avaya ERS users are choosing EXOS/Switch Engine is because stacking isn't supported in VOSS/Fabric Engine. I and others have customers who rather have Fabric Engine running on their universal switches since they're used to EDM and the VOSS CLI.

Re: SPBM implemented in EXOS

Chi — Tue, 09 Jan 2024 16:54:07 GMT

I agree with the VOSS/FE CLI aspect, since I did everything in the original ACE-Fx classes via CLI.

I'd take the old NNCLI from the Passports over the EXOS CLI. LOL

Re: SPBM implemented in EXOS

Nicolas_Melay — Mon, 19 Feb 2024 18:18:26 GMT

What's crazy about it is this global "no lacp" command will instantly kill all your aggregates, and optionally turn them to network loops and bring your network down.
The fact that it's an homonym to the per-interface "no lacp" command, and that VOSS will happily move you from one context to another without telling you just adds to the fun.

There are just too many dangerous behaviors and misdesigns in VOSS.
SPBM is a very interesting take on a modern network architecture.
But frankly, VOSS itself should never have passed QA.
It went straight from the lab to the shelf, this should not have happened in the first place.
And while a lot has been done to stabilize it in the recent years, a lot still remains to do.

Friends don't let friends use VOSS.

Re: SPBM implemented in EXOS

WillyHe — Fri, 23 Feb 2024 08:48:00 GMT

When changing configuration on a production network, you should always know what you are doing, even when the pressure is high to implement/fix something.

Minor or major problems can also arise when changing STP or routing configurations.

There are multiple CLI's in the market used by multiple vendors and, as mentioned before, some like one CLI type and refuse the other(s), but all have their pros and cons.
Force yourself to become familiar with a new cli and do it with a 🙂