topic Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i in ExtremeWireless (Identifi)

Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

wsgc — Sat, 15 Jun 2019 00:31:40 GMT

C35 Controller running 10.41.12.0006
AP AP3705i
Client: Lenovo A485, Windows 10Pro - Realtek 8822BE chipset

We have issues with some clients that have Realtek chipsets when they are on 5ghz and associated with the 3705 AP. They experience extremely high latency: ping times to the nearest switch on the network over 2 seconds. Also some clients are not always able to connect after being off the network for a while.

The clients when at a different site with newer APs(38xx,39xx)) do not have this problem. We'd like to get this solved without having to buy new APs because the 3705 is still supported.

Example:

Suspend laptop. Resume next day.

Windows unable to get a working connecton.

Proto: 5.0n|L,W
RSS: -56
Avg.Rate(Mbps)/Sent/Rec'd: 300/100
Ping time to switch: 1000-2500ms

Disassociate laptop from controller. Laptop does not connect again(Windows 10 doesn't bother trying to reconnect).
Force reconnection from client. Works.

Proto: 5.0n|L,W
RSS: -55
Avg.Rate(Mbps)/Sent/Rec'd: 254/80
Ping time to switch: 500-2800ms

Disassociate. Force reconnection.

Proto: 5.0n|L,W
RSS: -55
Avg.Rate(Mbps)/Sent/Rec'd: 254/80
Ping time to switch: 100-1000ms

Forcing laptop adapter to use 802.11b/g/n on 2.4ghz fixes problem.

802.11b/g/n(2.4)
Proto: 2.4n
RSS: -57
Avg.Rate(Mbps)/Sent/Rec'd: 104/172
Ping time to switch: <5ms

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

Doug — Sat, 15 Jun 2019 00:49:55 GMT

The 37xx ap's are end of SW support as of December 2018, we won't be coding any future fixes.

Have you been able to update the Realtek drivers to the latest from the Lenovo site?

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

wsgc — Sat, 15 Jun 2019 00:53:10 GMT

Ah, I missed that. We'll need to get these on next year's budget.

Yes, the drivers are up-to-date.

I was hoping there were some radio parameters that I could try tweaking.

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

Umut_Aydin — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 20:14:02 GMT

Hi,

try this settings.

disable MFP if enabled.(WLAN Service)
Disable 11k if enabled(WLAN Service)
Radio settings- advanced:
Set DTIM to 1
Enable protection RTC/CTS
Band width try maybe 20Mhz

Good luck.

Regards

Umut Aydin

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

DeVoID — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 00:24:50 GMT

Hi,

I have the same issue with a brand new Dell laptop that is capable of wifi 6 (ax). A ping to our router/firewall can go from 20ms to almost a full second or more

The AP is probably less than 20 feet away. The AP’s are AP650’s.

We already knew of the issue with Windows 10’s default network driver, how it would only connect to an AP that could be very far away, and that you had to install the actual manufacturer's network driver. In speaking to the desktop technician, he says that he has installed the manufacturer’s network driver 8 times and we are still seeing this issue.

We are a school and have 160 AP’s, most of them AP650’s and just a few outdoor AP1130’s.

Also, we have seen the laptop lose its connection to the AP, and either doesnt bother to re-attach, or reattaches but says “no Internet”.

Any ideas?

thanks,

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

Tomasz — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 10:16:38 GMT

Hi,

Just a quick guess - isn’t the client device frequently roaming between the APs?

Cheers,

Tomasz

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

StephanH — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 15:22:13 GMT

Hello J,

just as a note, the post refers to Identifi not ExtremeCloud IQ.

Regarding your problem, please check the power saving settings (in the wireless driver of you client). There are clients that fall asleep between pings and therefore take a long time to bring the ping to the WLAN.

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

DeVoID — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 19:40:44 GMT

Nope, just sitting in the office right next door to mine, where the AP is.

Thanks,

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

DeVoID — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 19:42:02 GMT

I saw that about turning power management off, and according to the desktop technician, there is nothing in the device properties to turn that off.

thanks,

J (Jason).

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

DeVoID — Fri, 26 Feb 2021 03:06:39 GMT

Oh, and the other thing about removing the driver Windows 10 installs (most the time anyway) when its finished installing itself, is to fully remove that driver. Not just remove it via Device Manager, Device, Properties and Uninstall Driver, but to actually delete the driver. Once you do that, then you go to the manufacturer’s website, download the install their driver.

There is an article here on how to do that: How to uninstall drivers from Windows, in 5 steps | Digital Citizen

I have asked the desktop technician to try that and let me know if he is still having the same issue. So ill get back here when i hear anything, and would appreciate any more thoughts/solutions on this issue, as the above may or may not work.

Thanks,

PS: If i didn't say it already, its an Intel card in this laptop.

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

DeVoID — Fri, 26 Feb 2021 03:08:52 GMT

How is that even possible? to fall asleep in between pings? if its a reply, like it is in this case (when it finally connects, even 2 seconds shouldn't be long enough for power management to kick the computer into sleep…

Thanks,

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

StephanH — Fri, 26 Feb 2021 04:56:04 GMT

Hello J,

Two seconds is an eternity in WLAN.

A WLAN client can go to sleep immediately after it has sent a packet completely and it then wakes up (not true for AX, 802.11ax is using TWT) whenever a TIM (traffic indicator map) is sent. This is defined by the DTIM interval. I.e. if the beacon period is 100ms and DTIM is 5, then the client must wake up every 500ms to read the beacon with the TIM and check whether there is data for it. You see if it has to wait two seconds for something then it could fall asleep up to 4 times to save energy.

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

StephanH — Fri, 26 Feb 2021 05:03:15 GMT

Hello J,

the easiest way to see what happen here is to do a trace in the air. With such a trace you will see powersafe, too.

On XIQ you can create a trace in “Manage->Tools->Packet capture”

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

Tomasz — Fri, 26 Feb 2021 08:14:11 GMT

Thanks,

Hi,

That is in fact possible. I had such problem once, someone had DTIM set to 5 and beacon interval increased to something like 300. Stations were allowed to put their WLAN to sleep for 1.5 s. This was devastating for their throughput tests and also for connection stability. A stationary device was roaming every minute between two APs back and forth (similar RSSI from both) totally loosing any throughput on iperf for few seconds before roaming. Fixing beacon interval back to 100 TU (100 ms in IdentiFi notion) helped. That’s why I asked as increased delays might occur with couple of issues (design/environment) but that one came to my mind first.

Hope that helps,

Tomasz

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

DeVoID — Mon, 08 Mar 2021 21:19:23 GMT

Thank you StephenH and Tomasz for explaining that. WOW, just wow. I had NO idea that is what they did, literally fall asleep as fast as grandpa after a Thanksgiving turkey dinner!

Its explanations like both of yours, that make me realize how little I know about wifi. I really thought i knew a lot, and maybe i do. But its this kind of granular knowledge that shows me that I dont have that much knowledge.

I suppose that if your single job is wifi, then that's all you concentrate on, study and test on and truly become an expert on. Unfortunately for my position, its a means to an end and just one of many services we offer our students, staff and faculty and just one small part of the many other things I have to manage. I think the saying is, jack of all trades, master of none.

Back to the network cards, and Windows OS. Am I imagining that when Windows does one of their large update (I believe its a new OS - like the latest one 20hSomething from 1909) its putting their Microsoft “default” driver back onto the computer? I have a laptop that I know had the old MS driver removed (the proper way - uninstalling it) and the actual manufacturer’s driver installed. But its back to its old behavior, and connecting to an Outdoor AP (1130) that’s over 100 feet away, versus an AP (650AH) that's in the same room as the laptop!

Any ideas about that?

Thanks again so much for all your help up to this point, i greatly appreciate it.

Best,

Jason.

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

dpanev — Mon, 08 Mar 2021 22:22:33 GMT

I gues your laptop cant “see” the ssid sent from the AP650 because its ax and the 1130 sents on ac

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

StephanH — Thu, 11 Mar 2021 05:41:09 GMT

In addition to the good idea from dpanev. Are you sure the AP650 uses the same frequncy band (2.4/5) as the Laptop?

And yes some MS updates change drivers.

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

DeVoID — Thu, 11 Mar 2021 20:56:45 GMT

Hi,

thanks for the reply.

We were having a heck of a time with 2.4, due to massive interference, and so i changed wifi0 to 5ghz, and only the outdoor AP1130’s have that running (irrigation system needs that and connects over its systems antenna).

Also, that makes sense to me that MS updates changes the NIC driver back to a MS default driver, as we have had a couple of Window PC start to have that same issue, knowing we removed the default driver and installed the latest manufacturers driver. Thanks for letting me know that.

That sucks, so potentially any Windows Update could set the NIC driver backwards, and cause the issue all over again, as we have seen here.

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

DeVoID — Thu, 11 Mar 2021 21:22:02 GMT

I cant say with 100% certainty that the laptop does, but in most cases, these are band new/latest laptops (brands from ASUS, Dell, HP, etc). Thanks, J.

Re: Problems with Realtek wireless adapters, 10.41.12.0006, AP3705i

StephanH — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 02:05:06 GMT

Hello,

a easy test can be to create a new test SSID and use only 5GHz for that SSID if the client can see the SSID you know the client supports 5 GHz.