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Extreme now has proctored exams


Userlevel 2
Wow, for years I have been taking Extreme Certifications for every product line. When people ask what Certs I have, I tell them, and answer the follow up question "Who is Extreme Networks!" Never have they been monitored, until now...Thanks Extreme you have finally reached CISCO level. I don't know what else to say, very disappointed.

Here is from the Technical Training Data Sheet:

"Extreme Networks technical training exams are considered high- stakes exams and are independently proctored by ProctorU, with one attempt of the related exam included within the standard course fee (this is regardless of whether the student has completed instructor-led training or self-paced eLearning).Further exam attempts can be purchased if required at an additional cost of $395. All exams can be registered for and administered within the Extreme Networks Learning Portal using an individual’s existing portal log-in. Students have

1 hour to complete the exam. An exam will be considered Passed with a score of 75% or above."

PS your not a high-stakes Cert!!! The last few acquisitions you have become less and less Extreme, I see all the quality Engineers leaving, and your customer loyalty waning. I guess it is all about the money. This is how you stay in 3rd place!

Signed,
Less likely to lead Purple!

35 replies

Userlevel 7
My 2cents on this topic....

- far too expensive, I'd do CWNP exam at a location near me (Pearson VUE) for half the price, no idea why the online thing cost 400$

- I don't like to share a copy of my passport or any other information (snapshots of my room) with a 3rd party in the NSA USA (all data is stored for 7 years)

Here a video how it works....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiehIf14Zkg

For me that is as bad as the ebook "solution".

-Ron
Userlevel 2
One instructor I had explained it was great to have open book tests. Sure we need to have good knowledge of the subject, but when rubber hits the road are we just going to implement a solution without researching it again and refreshing our memories if it isn't something we do every day. It isn't like we show up and wing it with our memory of what was in class.

I'm sure it is great to have a test that requires memory and knowledge of subject to the nth degree, but that isn't real life for an engineer, we have access to books and guides and implement via best practices.

ebook solution wasn't a great idea either.
Userlevel 6
I like your point Brian. One of my on going things i pound into out new hires on the technical side... One skill set i developed and continue to improve is the ability to locate current and pertinent information about the many things we all run into doing our support and engineering side. None of us can remember that one command or option when there are choices the be made on a new item we have never done before or an excisting we don't do day to day.

True test of a network engineer is not how much book knowledge they have based on a few days of studying a huge amount of details and testing this with a right or wrong score on specific date,, True test is their ability to use the skills they were taught to figure out issues and problems and the familiarity of the tools set they have in front of them to guide them to successfully being able to make a service or function work.

Needless to say I like hands on and lab tests with open books 🙂
Userlevel 4
Hi Guys,

I totally agree with Michael (specially in the "you aren't HIGH STAKES" part), Ronald, Brian and EtherMAN...

Excuse me, but I think could be useful put things in perspective (my personal view):

As we already discussed in some meetings (LATAM PAC included): WE AREN'T COCA-COLA (or COKE, whatever)... We maybe some kind of COCA-COLA-WANNABE, but WE ARE NOT COCA-COLA!

If we are an Ginger-Ale-like, we need to act like Ginger-Ale, and work hard to be a COCA-COLA, but one step at a time... We are at the "Gartner's Leaders Magic-Quadrant", but remember: Despite all the efforts, we are light-years behind the COCA-COLA champion (not talking about tech, but market).

The online exams are absolutely overrated and overpriced... Can't really assess the engineer knowledge, too expensive and now with more useless "requisites"...

As I said in other opportunities, we have MUCH to improve in our training program (personally I've achieved the former Enterasys ECA cert, and passed all the trainings and exams, so I could feel what it really is) and it's not enough to allow someone to "sit at the pilot's seat"... Field experience and LOTS of research, reading, hands-on are requided to someone could be really callled "Network Engineer" or something like this.

Best regards,

-Leo
Userlevel 1
Also nice is the new retake policy if you fail an exam: none, you have to buy a complete new exam,.... for around $400

And who thinks that a flash plug-in is acceptable in 2018 ?? And where is the next testcentre ??
Texas ?? Florida ?? I'm from Germany,,.....
Userlevel 1
Thanks for sharing feedback here. We always listen. With regard proctoring it was introduced to bring integrity into our certification process, especially to support the expansion of our channel partner program. Based on the feedback my team is now examining the process and we're going to investigate alternative options for how it's done. With regard training overall Extreme is investing in new training content, new modalities and new pricing options. Keep an eye out for developments
Userlevel 4
Rohan Abeysuriya wrote:

Thanks for sharing feedback here. We always listen. With regard proctoring it was introduced to bring integrity into our certification process, especially to support the expansion of our channel partner program. Based on the feedback my team is now examining the process and we're going to investigate alternative options for how it's done. With regard training overall Extreme is investing in new training content, new modalities and new pricing options. Keep an eye out for developments

Hi Rohan,

Good to hear that we have some initiatives to make things better, specially for Partners.

I'm looking forward to see the improvements and fixes to our training and certification programs and hoe it doesn't take too long for results.

Best regards,

-Leo
Userlevel 1
Rohan Abeysuriya wrote:

Thanks for sharing feedback here. We always listen. With regard proctoring it was introduced to bring integrity into our certification process, especially to support the expansion of our channel partner program. Based on the feedback my team is now examining the process and we're going to investigate alternative options for how it's done. With regard training overall Extreme is investing in new training content, new modalities and new pricing options. Keep an eye out for developments

Hi Leonardo, we're working hard on this but it takes time. It's recognized as an area Extreme will invest in. We have a new training model in development and the first new training courses will start to appear in Oct/Nov. I appreciate the opportunity to read opinions posted here and hearing the feedback does influences what we do.
Userlevel 2
Thanks for the update, glad to know your reviewing the process. I am all for integrity, but don't just follow the path of other manufactures. If you ever look at job postings no one is asking for Extreme Certifications. Your not that company. Right now the way you have it makes me not want to get Extreme Certified. It does nothing for me, the only reason me or any of my Engineers are taking them is to keep our Partner Status with you. One of our Engineers just took a test with you. After 20-30 mins of the Proctor taking a picture of his ID, holding a mirror to the camera to make sure the room is clear, under his desk, all over. Then remote in to his laptop to make settings changes to his personal machine. During the test the proctor lost Video of him so he had to stop and talk to the proctor to get video back during the test. I can tell you I will not let anyone remote into my laptop to make setting changes, or video my office, or Post my ID card to the internet. In years with working with Extreme, I have about 4-5 customers that actually took the certification test. Most if not all take the class to learn, but never test. In my opinion you have made it harder for people to justify working on Extreme Certs. They don't mean anything to employers, they don't get you paid more. If I want all that I will keep my Cisco Certs current. Please don't loose site of who Extreme is, this is my many of us stay with you, because your not the other guy and you care about your customers!
Userlevel 7
Michael wrote:

Thanks for the update, glad to know your reviewing the process. I am all for integrity, but don't just follow the path of other manufactures. If you ever look at job postings no one is asking for Extreme Certifications. Your not that company. Right now the way you have it makes me not want to get Extreme Certified. It does nothing for me, the only reason me or any of my Engineers are taking them is to keep our Partner Status with you. One of our Engineers just took a test with you. After 20-30 mins of the Proctor taking a picture of his ID, holding a mirror to the camera to make sure the room is clear, under his desk, all over. Then remote in to his laptop to make settings changes to his personal machine. During the test the proctor lost Video of him so he had to stop and talk to the proctor to get video back during the test. I can tell you I will not let anyone remote into my laptop to make setting changes, or video my office, or Post my ID card to the internet. In years with working with Extreme, I have about 4-5 customers that actually took the certification test. Most if not all take the class to learn, but never test. In my opinion you have made it harder for people to justify working on Extreme Certs. They don't mean anything to employers, they don't get you paid more. If I want all that I will keep my Cisco Certs current. Please don't loose site of who Extreme is, this is my many of us stay with you, because your not the other guy and you care about your customers!

This +1

I can tell you I will not let anyone remote into my laptop to make setting changes, or video my office, or Post my ID card to the internet.

Userlevel 1
Michael wrote:

Thanks for the update, glad to know your reviewing the process. I am all for integrity, but don't just follow the path of other manufactures. If you ever look at job postings no one is asking for Extreme Certifications. Your not that company. Right now the way you have it makes me not want to get Extreme Certified. It does nothing for me, the only reason me or any of my Engineers are taking them is to keep our Partner Status with you. One of our Engineers just took a test with you. After 20-30 mins of the Proctor taking a picture of his ID, holding a mirror to the camera to make sure the room is clear, under his desk, all over. Then remote in to his laptop to make settings changes to his personal machine. During the test the proctor lost Video of him so he had to stop and talk to the proctor to get video back during the test. I can tell you I will not let anyone remote into my laptop to make setting changes, or video my office, or Post my ID card to the internet. In years with working with Extreme, I have about 4-5 customers that actually took the certification test. Most if not all take the class to learn, but never test. In my opinion you have made it harder for people to justify working on Extreme Certs. They don't mean anything to employers, they don't get you paid more. If I want all that I will keep my Cisco Certs current. Please don't loose site of who Extreme is, this is my many of us stay with you, because your not the other guy and you care about your customers!

Thanks Michael, I'll come back to this thread when I've got an update
Userlevel 7
Ok so "the team" will review the process - to tell the truth that sounds like some corporate 0815 reply and the post include no answer to any question.

How long should we wait for the review.
Userlevel 4
Ron wrote:

Ok so "the team" will review the process - to tell the truth that sounds like some corporate 0815 reply and the post include no answer to any question.

How long should we wait for the review.

Hi Ron,

How long should we wait for the review.


This is the $1M question...

We already had several meetings and discussions about this subject.

Feel free to contact me by leonardo@secureit.com.br if you like and I can share with you some additional info.

Best regards,

-Leo
Userlevel 1
Hi Ronald, end of August, around 2 weeks from now. btw - being rude on here is not cool. I'll come back to this thread when I have an update to share
Userlevel 3
Rohan,

All due respect, but, we as partners have been very frustrated with the changes to Training over the past year.

First it was the eBooks. In December 2017, we were told that hard copies of the training material could be purchased for a nominal fee - $200 is NOT a nominal fee. In our offices, we use older training material to refresh on certain things, and to make up some of our own labs to keep sharp and fresh on things we don't work on everyday... Supposedly, the whole eBook debacle was being reviewed, and we were waiting answers... None have come.

At the last Partner Conference in October 2017, we were told that Training as a Service would be coming in January 2018. That was an affordable option for partners to keep up their certifications. When that didn't materialize, we were told that the training department in the US was dissolved, and now the training department was being moved overseas.

While I understand that may be great news for the EU partners, it has become increasingly frustrating for the US based partners...

In June, we were that the expected launch date for TaaS was going to be October 1, 2018. Is that still the plan? We were also told that there would be details about TaaS released in Mid-July 2018. I may have missed them, but I surely haven't seen them. If there was an update, please direct me to a link.

The re-certification offer of a couple of exams, while appreciated, fell woefully short in helping the partners maintain their Partnership Level (Gold or Diamond).

So please try to understand our frustration, which may come across as being rude, but we've (partners) have been told "we'll let you know" for several months, with no tangible updates

Thanks,

Bill
Userlevel 7
Bill Handler wrote:

Rohan,

All due respect, but, we as partners have been very frustrated with the changes to Training over the past year.

First it was the eBooks. In December 2017, we were told that hard copies of the training material could be purchased for a nominal fee - $200 is NOT a nominal fee. In our offices, we use older training material to refresh on certain things, and to make up some of our own labs to keep sharp and fresh on things we don't work on everyday... Supposedly, the whole eBook debacle was being reviewed, and we were waiting answers... None have come.

At the last Partner Conference in October 2017, we were told that Training as a Service would be coming in January 2018. That was an affordable option for partners to keep up their certifications. When that didn't materialize, we were told that the training department in the US was dissolved, and now the training department was being moved overseas.

While I understand that may be great news for the EU partners, it has become increasingly frustrating for the US based partners...

In June, we were that the expected launch date for TaaS was going to be October 1, 2018. Is that still the plan? We were also told that there would be details about TaaS released in Mid-July 2018. I may have missed them, but I surely haven't seen them. If there was an update, please direct me to a link.

The re-certification offer of a couple of exams, while appreciated, fell woefully short in helping the partners maintain their Partnership Level (Gold or Diamond).

So please try to understand our frustration, which may come across as being rude, but we've (partners) have been told "we'll let you know" for several months, with no tangible updates

Thanks,

Bill

great post Bill +1
Userlevel 7

btw - being rude on here is not cool.


Not sure what you are talking about....
Userlevel 4
Hello there,

I also get a lot of complaints about the system - but I believe things can be worked out. Nothing is fixed forever here, the learning portal and the partner program evolves constantly...
I can understand the ebook DRM approach (despite if somebody tries, there is a workaround for that), I get the single exam attempt (in some vendors normally you pay for a class and for an exam separately), but the online proctoring is often a matter of security concern in companies. Two solutions seem to be feasible:
1. Reverting from ProctorU, as we would assume that an engineer also handicaps himself with User Guide and CLI Reference at customer site, unless he has months of experience - the class itself is not the same, it's just to get the common sense of the features, capabilities and configuration guidelines.
2. Moving to on-site proctoring like Pearson VUE.
I know that ProctorU idea was taken with one of the acquisitions, but I heard already, that this vendor's students were taking the class and often they didn't proceed with the exam (security concerns).

I believe this will be eventually solved in a good direction.

Regards,
Tomasz
Userlevel 1
Hi, we've decided to end proctoring based on customer and partner feedback. Thanks for being vocal on this forum. Below is an extract from the message I sent to our WW teams earlier today. Rohan Abey. Director, Extreme Networks

In 2017 Extreme Networks introduced Virtual On Line Proctoring for technical exams as part of the Extreme Certified Specialist (ECS) certification process. As our training volume has significantly increased over the last 6 months we have been listening to customer feedback and reviewing our processes. Based on this review we have decided to end Virtual On Line Proctoring for ECS exams. A successful exam will still be required to achieve certification but it will be un-proctored and on line.

This will come into effect from 8th September 2018. Proctored exam bookings will continue to be accepted up to 7th September, and from 8th September all ECS exams will be available on line in the Extreme Networks Learning portal.



As we further develop our training portfolio we may introduce in person proctoring for selected advanced exams.
Userlevel 4
Rohan Abeysuriya wrote:

Hi, we've decided to end proctoring based on customer and partner feedback. Thanks for being vocal on this forum. Below is an extract from the message I sent to our WW teams earlier today. Rohan Abey. Director, Extreme Networks

In 2017 Extreme Networks introduced Virtual On Line Proctoring for technical exams as part of the Extreme Certified Specialist (ECS) certification process. As our training volume has significantly increased over the last 6 months we have been listening to customer feedback and reviewing our processes. Based on this review we have decided to end Virtual On Line Proctoring for ECS exams. A successful exam will still be required to achieve certification but it will be un-proctored and on line.

This will come into effect from 8th September 2018. Proctored exam bookings will continue to be accepted up to 7th September, and from 8th September all ECS exams will be available on line in the Extreme Networks Learning portal.



As we further develop our training portfolio we may introduce in person proctoring for selected advanced exams.

Hi Rohan,

I think this is a correct decision, based on everything we discussed in this thread and other meetings we had in the past.

Proctoring for selected advanced exams makes sense to me, as in the ECA Certification Exams, just like I passed a few years ago, in the Enterasys-age, where the candidate need to show high expertise and deep knowledge of the portfolio, but being allowed to use only the product guides and manuals, including the EMC Help pages, because in this case it's virtually impossible to remember every command sintax and other details needed to fully deploy the required LAB.

I'm glad to know that Extreme hears our considerations and take actions to make things better.

We are on the same boat, and we all should work together to reach our common destination, but this is only achiaveable if we all paddle together in the same direction, in sync.

Best regards,

-Leo
Userlevel 4
Rohan Abeysuriya wrote:

Hi, we've decided to end proctoring based on customer and partner feedback. Thanks for being vocal on this forum. Below is an extract from the message I sent to our WW teams earlier today. Rohan Abey. Director, Extreme Networks

In 2017 Extreme Networks introduced Virtual On Line Proctoring for technical exams as part of the Extreme Certified Specialist (ECS) certification process. As our training volume has significantly increased over the last 6 months we have been listening to customer feedback and reviewing our processes. Based on this review we have decided to end Virtual On Line Proctoring for ECS exams. A successful exam will still be required to achieve certification but it will be un-proctored and on line.

This will come into effect from 8th September 2018. Proctored exam bookings will continue to be accepted up to 7th September, and from 8th September all ECS exams will be available on line in the Extreme Networks Learning portal.



As we further develop our training portfolio we may introduce in person proctoring for selected advanced exams.

Hello Rohan,

Just to get sure, does the deadline apply to the classes or to the exams?
Exams will not be proctored for the classes that have started/ended after 8th September? Or will those not be proctored when taken after 7th September, regardless the class date?

Kind regards,
Tomasz
Rohan Abeysuriya wrote:

Hi, we've decided to end proctoring based on customer and partner feedback. Thanks for being vocal on this forum. Below is an extract from the message I sent to our WW teams earlier today. Rohan Abey. Director, Extreme Networks

In 2017 Extreme Networks introduced Virtual On Line Proctoring for technical exams as part of the Extreme Certified Specialist (ECS) certification process. As our training volume has significantly increased over the last 6 months we have been listening to customer feedback and reviewing our processes. Based on this review we have decided to end Virtual On Line Proctoring for ECS exams. A successful exam will still be required to achieve certification but it will be un-proctored and on line.

This will come into effect from 8th September 2018. Proctored exam bookings will continue to be accepted up to 7th September, and from 8th September all ECS exams will be available on line in the Extreme Networks Learning portal.



As we further develop our training portfolio we may introduce in person proctoring for selected advanced exams.

Extreme Networks communication as per today (5.9.2018):
In 2017 Extreme Networks introduced Virtual On Line Proctoring for technical exams as part of the Extreme Certified Specialist (ECS) certification process.

As our training volume has significantly increased over the last 6 months we have been listening to customer feedback and reviewing our processes.

Based on this review we have decided to end Virtual On Line Proctoring for ECS exams.

A successful exam will still be required to achieve certification but it will be un-proctored and on line.

This will come into effect from 8th September 2018. Proctored exam bookings will continue to be accepted up to 7th September, and from 8th September all ECS exams will available on line in the Extreme Networks Learning portal.



As we further develop our training portfolio we may introduce in person proctoring for selected advanced exams.
Userlevel 2
Rohan Abeysuriya wrote:

Hi, we've decided to end proctoring based on customer and partner feedback. Thanks for being vocal on this forum. Below is an extract from the message I sent to our WW teams earlier today. Rohan Abey. Director, Extreme Networks

In 2017 Extreme Networks introduced Virtual On Line Proctoring for technical exams as part of the Extreme Certified Specialist (ECS) certification process. As our training volume has significantly increased over the last 6 months we have been listening to customer feedback and reviewing our processes. Based on this review we have decided to end Virtual On Line Proctoring for ECS exams. A successful exam will still be required to achieve certification but it will be un-proctored and on line.

This will come into effect from 8th September 2018. Proctored exam bookings will continue to be accepted up to 7th September, and from 8th September all ECS exams will be available on line in the Extreme Networks Learning portal.



As we further develop our training portfolio we may introduce in person proctoring for selected advanced exams.

Thanks for the update, Glad to here that they listen to us.
Rohan Abeysuriya wrote:

Hi, we've decided to end proctoring based on customer and partner feedback. Thanks for being vocal on this forum. Below is an extract from the message I sent to our WW teams earlier today. Rohan Abey. Director, Extreme Networks

In 2017 Extreme Networks introduced Virtual On Line Proctoring for technical exams as part of the Extreme Certified Specialist (ECS) certification process. As our training volume has significantly increased over the last 6 months we have been listening to customer feedback and reviewing our processes. Based on this review we have decided to end Virtual On Line Proctoring for ECS exams. A successful exam will still be required to achieve certification but it will be un-proctored and on line.

This will come into effect from 8th September 2018. Proctored exam bookings will continue to be accepted up to 7th September, and from 8th September all ECS exams will be available on line in the Extreme Networks Learning portal.



As we further develop our training portfolio we may introduce in person proctoring for selected advanced exams.

Will be great if they would listen to comments regarding the exam cost as well. 400 USD for an online exam is far over common market prices. I doubt this could be justified with efforts for such an exam since ProctorU left the game...
Userlevel 7
I'm glad that virtual online proctoring is off the table but what about the other topics ?!

400$ for the exam is far too expansive and the ebook solution is also not good.

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